Comments on: About http://legerity.wordpress.com a new way of thinking about church Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:32:22 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: John http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-587 John Sun, 03 May 2009 07:42:33 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-587 Eugene thank you for your concern. And I respect your point that in the picture I almost seem to celebrate the "bottle". It is not my intention to celebrate licentious behaviour or drunkenness. But I would question whether it is wrong to celebrate correctly the goodness of God's creation - sex or entertainment can be just as grossly abused as can alcohol but yet in the right context and the right way we are right to celebrate it. As Christians we even encourage it... But because I do not want to be a cause of dissension among my brothers perhaps I should change my picture... But agreed lets keep the main thing the main thing and not be distracted - God uses all of us in our weaknesses and lack of wisdom That is to say that both of us or neither of us may be right on this issue. But let us rather consider how we may love and serve one another, our brothers and sisters and the unbelieving world. Eugene thank you for your concern. And I respect your point that in the picture I almost seem to celebrate the “bottle”. It is not my intention to celebrate licentious behaviour or drunkenness. But I would question whether it is wrong to celebrate correctly the goodness of God’s creation – sex or entertainment can be just as grossly abused as can alcohol but yet in the right context and the right way we are right to celebrate it. As Christians we even encourage it…

But because I do not want to be a cause of dissension among my brothers perhaps I should change my picture…

But agreed lets keep the main thing the main thing and not be distracted – God uses all of us in our weaknesses and lack of wisdom That is to say that both of us or neither of us may be right on this issue. But let us rather consider how we may love and serve one another, our brothers and sisters and the unbelieving world.

]]> By: Eiugene http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-586 Eiugene Sat, 02 May 2009 20:03:52 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-586 John, you were thoughtful to reply with your rationale on the subject of alcohol use. If we were to contine to spar over this it might detract from our basic calling. But while much of what you say is fine...and I fully agree that we not confuse abstentions from "whatever" as a case for being Christian, it was your seeming to almost celebrate the "bottle" and in this case you were probably not "speaking" to those outside of Christ, so that was part of my concern. Recently Wolf Blitzer's pardner in the CNN Situation Room (can't recall his name at the moment), spoke of his long battle with alcohol and the road to recovery, and told of his gathering his daughters to sit down and told them...."this is in your genes, so stay far away from the stuff." It was a powerful an somewhat unusual moment on a secular news program. Anyway....just take my word for what it might be worth to you and know my intention was for your good and that of your family and others over whom you may have influence. Oh yes, I have spent much time in European countries where beer is the norm and all accept my word that, "it's the custom of my wife and I not to use alcohol...." and no further word is needed. We have been highly respected and in many cases with return visits to our home in the U.S. No need to stretch this out further. I give it simply as testimony not intended as a lecture. Blessings my brother! John, you were thoughtful to reply with your rationale on the subject of alcohol use. If we were to contine to spar over this it might detract from our basic calling. But while much of what you say is fine…and I fully agree that we not confuse abstentions from “whatever” as a case for being Christian, it was your seeming to almost celebrate the “bottle” and in this case you were probably not “speaking” to those outside of Christ, so that was part of my concern. Recently Wolf Blitzer’s pardner in the CNN Situation Room (can’t recall his name at the moment), spoke of his long battle with alcohol and the road to recovery, and told of his gathering his daughters to sit down and told them….”this is in your genes, so stay far away from the stuff.” It was a powerful an somewhat unusual moment on a secular news program. Anyway….just take my word for what it might be worth to you and know my intention was for your good and that of your family and others over whom you may have influence. Oh yes, I have spent much time in European countries where beer is the norm and all accept my word that, “it’s the custom of my wife and I not to use alcohol….” and no further word is needed. We have been highly respected and in many cases with return visits to our home in the U.S. No need to stretch this out further. I give it simply as testimony not intended as a lecture. Blessings my brother!

]]> By: John http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-584 John Fri, 01 May 2009 15:21:52 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-584 Hi Eugene, Thanks for your comment, and your concern. 1) My name is John not Mike but I realise that it does not appear anywhere on this page so that is my fault. 2) I hear what you are saying and I undestand the issue, this has been a significant issue in my own family. But I think there is a flip side that we never talk about and which can be just as devastating. In SA we have a huge problem with religiousity posing as Christianity. The rule is if you drink/smoke/date etc then you cannot be a Christian. Now that is simply not the gospel. And because I choose to drink alcohol responsibly I have found myself having many great conversations with people about what true Christianity, really is. I have found that in areas where there has been vast alcohol abuse the temptation to associate sobriety with Christianity is more widespread. Whilst we cannot condone the widespread abuse of alcohol we equally cannot condone the widespread confusion of the message of Jesus with moralism. The decision whether to drink or not must not be dealt with as a blanket decision. The decision for every individual and community must be contextual and situational - what will best serve the gospel in this situation? I have no intention to cause you offense or cause others to stumble but I think sometimes in our blanket condemnation of alcohol we cause unbelievers to stumble and reject a message that they mistakenly confuse for true Christianity. Thoughts? Hi Eugene,

Thanks for your comment, and your concern.

1) My name is John not Mike but I realise that it does not appear anywhere on this page so that is my fault.

2) I hear what you are saying and I undestand the issue, this has been a significant issue in my own family. But I think there is a flip side that we never talk about and which can be just as devastating.

In SA we have a huge problem with religiousity posing as Christianity. The rule is if you drink/smoke/date etc then you cannot be a Christian. Now that is simply not the gospel. And because I choose to drink alcohol responsibly I have found myself having many great conversations with people about what true Christianity, really is.

I have found that in areas where there has been vast alcohol abuse the temptation to associate sobriety with Christianity is more widespread. Whilst we cannot condone the widespread abuse of alcohol we equally cannot condone the widespread confusion of the message of Jesus with moralism.

The decision whether to drink or not must not be dealt with as a blanket decision. The decision for every individual and community must be contextual and situational – what will best serve the gospel in this situation?

I have no intention to cause you offense or cause others to stumble but I think sometimes in our blanket condemnation of alcohol we cause unbelievers to stumble and reject a message that they mistakenly confuse for true Christianity.

Thoughts?

]]> By: Eugene http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-582 Eugene Fri, 01 May 2009 00:55:53 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-582 Mike, you sound like a guy on a mission. One little word and photo....the beer, is troubling....I run the risk of being pegged as not what I am....but Mike, the stumbling block issue is huge. I speak as one who has witnessed tremendous suffering from alcohol in family....truly devastating....don't mess with is is my counsel and no one will think the less of you. It's my word from the Lord for you tonight. Blessings on your ministry, and I love Capetown...been there and was blessed. Mike, you sound like a guy on a mission. One little word and photo….the beer, is troubling….I run the risk of being pegged as not what I am….but Mike, the stumbling block issue is huge. I speak as one who has witnessed tremendous suffering from alcohol in family….truly devastating….don’t mess with is is my counsel and no one will think the less of you. It’s my word from the Lord for you tonight. Blessings on your ministry, and I love Capetown…been there and was blessed.

]]> By: John http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-277 John Thu, 06 Nov 2008 06:52:29 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-277 Hey Mike, Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts in the comments section. Skype john.scheepers19 Look forward to hearing from you. Hey Mike,

Thanks.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts in the comments section.

Skype john.scheepers19

Look forward to hearing from you.

]]> By: Mike Edwards http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-274 Mike Edwards Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:56:18 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-274 Hey man Glad I found your blog. I'll add it to the feed reader. I'll be praying for you! Sometime, we'll have to connect. Do you have skype? Hey man

Glad I found your blog. I’ll add it to the feed reader. I’ll be praying for you! Sometime, we’ll have to connect. Do you have skype?

]]> By: John http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-257 John Sat, 18 Oct 2008 18:54:49 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-257 Cape Town born and bred. Proudly Capetonian! Cape Town born and bred. Proudly Capetonian!

]]> By: NathanG http://legerity.wordpress.com/about-2/#comment-256 NathanG Fri, 17 Oct 2008 03:24:20 +0000 http://legerity.wordpress.com/?page_id=28#comment-256 Great to read about you and even your post on missional education. Continue on! Where are you originally from ? NG Great to read about you and even your post on missional education. Continue on!

Where are you originally from ?

NG

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